ஆர்யம் திராவிடம் (சில உண்மைகள், தகவல்கள்):
குறிப்புக்களும் தகவல்களும் மூலம் திரு. எஸ்.கே.எம் (துக்ளக் ஆன்லைன் வாசகரின் பின்னூட்டங்கள் 22.3.2012 இதழ்) அவருக்கும் கருத்து மூலம் சுவாமி விவேகானந்தரின் புத்தகங்களிலிருந்து.................!! ஆகவே மூலம் ஸ்வாமி விவேகானந்தர் எனலாம்!!.
************************************************************************
வெங்கட்
மூன்று கடல்களுக்கு இடையில் (திரிவிடம்) உள்ள பிரதேசம் என்று இங்கே நம் நண்பர்கள் யாரோ அல்லது சுப்பிரமணியம் சுவாமியின் பேச்சிலோ கேட்டேன். சர் பெயராக ஆர்ய மற்றும் திராவிட் ஆகிய இரண்டும் உள்ள பிராமணர்களை நான் அறிவேன். அப்படியே இரண்டு இனம் இருந்தால்தான் என்ன? ஒரு தேசம் என்பது வீடு தொழில் நாடு கடவுள் ஆகியன பற்றி ஏறக்குறய ஒத்த சிந்தனைகளையும் செயல்களையும் கொண்டிருப்பது மட்டுமே . ஒரு இந்தியனை எடுத்துக்கொண்டால் அவன் எங்கிருந்து வந்தாலும் மற்றொரு இந்தியனோடு சிறிது நேரத்தில் ஒன்றிப் பழக முடியும்.ஆனால் ஒரு வெள்ளையனோடு அவ்வாறு பழக இயலுமா? அதுதான் தேசியம். கருணாநிதி ஆரம்பத்தில் வெற்றி கொள்ள முடிந்ததுக்குக் காரணம் மக்களிடையே இருந்த எக்கச்சக்க பொருளாதார வேறுபாடுதான். அதே போல கிராஃப்ட் எனப்படும் கைத்தொழில்கள் எல்லாம் வெள்ளையனின் இயந்திரமயத்தினாலும் அவர்கள் திட்டமிட்டு அவற்றை அழித்ததாலும் ஒழிந்து போக பல்லாயிரக்கணக்கான பேர் மிகவும் ஏழ்மையான நிலைக்குத்தள்ளப்பட்டு நின்றபோது அவர்களின் அந்நிலைக்கு பிராமணர்கள்தான் காரணம் என்று கதை கட்டிவிட்டு அவர்களுக்கு நெருக்கமாகி அந்த நெருக்கத்தைக்கொண்டே அரசியல் நடத்தியவர் கருணாநிதி. அதிலும் மிகக் கடை நிலையில் இருந்த ஜாதிக்காரர்களை அவர் கண்டு கொள்ளவில்லை. அவர்களை நிலச்சுவாந்த
ஆனால் ஏற்ற தாழ்வுகள் இந்த அளவுக்கு அதிகமாக இருக்கும் எந்த நாட்டிலும் கருணாநிதி போன்றவர்கள் குளிர்காயத்தான் செய்வார்கள்.
இந்த தடவை ஜெஜெ கொஞ்சம் நல்லவிதத்தில் செயல்படுகிறா
மூன்று கடல்களுக்கு இடையில் (திரிவிடம்) உள்ள பிரதேசம் என்று இங்கே நம் நண்பர்கள் யாரோ அல்லது சுப்பிரமணியம் சுவாமியின் பேச்சிலோ கேட்டேன். சர் பெயராக ஆர்ய மற்றும் திராவிட் ஆகிய இரண்டும் உள்ள பிராமணர்களை நான் அறிவேன். அப்படியே இரண்டு இனம் இருந்தால்தான் என்ன? ஒரு தேசம் என்பது வீடு தொழில் நாடு கடவுள் ஆகியன பற்றி ஏறக்குறய ஒத்த சிந்தனைகளையும் செயல்களையும் கொண்டிருப்பது மட்டுமே . ஒரு இந்தியனை எடுத்துக்கொண்டால் அவன் எங்கிருந்து வந்தாலும் மற்றொரு இந்தியனோடு சிறிது நேரத்தில் ஒன்றிப் பழக முடியும்.ஆனால் ஒரு வெள்ளையனோடு அவ்வாறு பழக இயலுமா? அதுதான் தேசியம். கருணாநிதி ஆரம்பத்தில் வெற்றி கொள்ள முடிந்ததுக்குக் காரணம் மக்களிடையே இருந்த எக்கச்சக்க பொருளாதார வேறுபாடுதான். அதே போல கிராஃப்ட் எனப்படும் கைத்தொழில்கள் எல்லாம் வெள்ளையனின் இயந்திரமயத்தினாலும் அவர்கள் திட்டமிட்டு அவற்றை அழித்ததாலும் ஒழிந்து போக பல்லாயிரக்கணக்கான பேர் மிகவும் ஏழ்மையான நிலைக்குத்தள்ளப்பட்டு நின்றபோது அவர்களின் அந்நிலைக்கு பிராமணர்கள்தான் காரணம் என்று கதை கட்டிவிட்டு அவர்களுக்கு நெருக்கமாகி அந்த நெருக்கத்தைக்கொண்டே அரசியல் நடத்தியவர் கருணாநிதி. அதிலும் மிகக் கடை நிலையில் இருந்த ஜாதிக்காரர்களை அவர் கண்டு கொள்ளவில்லை. அவர்களை நிலச்சுவாந்த
ஆனால் ஏற்ற தாழ்வுகள் இந்த அளவுக்கு அதிகமாக இருக்கும் எந்த நாட்டிலும் கருணாநிதி போன்றவர்கள் குளிர்காயத்தான் செய்வார்கள்.
இந்த தடவை ஜெஜெ கொஞ்சம் நல்லவிதத்தில் செயல்படுகிறா
SKM, USA
These are excellent, detailed explanations indeed!
However, according to Swami Vivekananda quoted below, a race called Aryans did exist (not in the sense discussed in the Ramayana and the Gita/Mahabharata) and a race called Dravidians did exist.
BUT these two races along with many others INTERMIXED among each other over several thousand years so as to erase racial differences.
More in the words of the Great Man himself below...(wherever you think an idea might start a conversation please cut paste the appropriate sentence and start a thread)
These are excellent, detailed explanations indeed!
However, according to Swami Vivekananda quoted below, a race called Aryans did exist (not in the sense discussed in the Ramayana and the Gita/Mahabharata) and a race called Dravidians did exist.
BUT these two races along with many others INTERMIXED among each other over several thousand years so as to erase racial differences.
More in the words of the Great Man himself below...(wherever you think an idea might start a conversation please cut paste the appropriate sentence and start a thread)
Sai
Amazing...Jaya Jaya Shankara...Hara Hara Shankara!!
Amazing...Jaya Jaya Shankara...Hara Hara Shankara!!
D' Ram
In the sloka2, Canto 32 of Narayaneeyam in his narration of Matsyavatharam Mepathur Narayana Bhattatiri speaks about Satyavratha the Dramila king in whose hands a small fish fish appearswhile the king was doing Tarpana in the river. the word Dramila would only refer to the region ruled by the king and not to race of the people who lived in this region. The word Dramila during the passage of time came to be called Dravida. Secondly the word Arya was used in ancient times to denote a person with noble qualities and was never used in the context of race.Present day historians hold a view that there was no Aryan invasion from Central Asia via Khyber & Bholan passes and they there was no such thing that they fought wars against the so called Dravidian population and drove them south of the Vindhya mountains decimating most of the population. The research of the present day historians indicate that there was an indegenious civilization that flourished in the Indo-Gangetic plain and it was this civilization that spread westwards towards Iran, Central Asia and middle eastern counties.Geneticall speaking it is also an established fact that there is no such race called Dravidian race. Ignorance and sheer self intersts in the minds of certain people of Tamil Nadu are the factors that made them indulge in fallacious theory stating that Brahmins belong to the Aryan race dominating over the rest of the people in Tamil Nadu who belong to the Dravidian race.Besides this, the Britishers during their rule in India had adopted a Divide and rule policy permitting all sort of dissensions among the people over whom they ruled strongly lending support to the Aryanvs Dravidian dichotomy as well as the Brahmin & Non-brahmin classifications. Those who shout from roof tops that Brahmins are Aryans and others are Dravidians spreading hatred and violence are deluding themselves living in fools' paradise.
In the sloka2, Canto 32 of Narayaneeyam in his narration of Matsyavatharam Mepathur Narayana Bhattatiri speaks about Satyavratha the Dramila king in whose hands a small fish fish appearswhile the king was doing Tarpana in the river. the word Dramila would only refer to the region ruled by the king and not to race of the people who lived in this region. The word Dramila during the passage of time came to be called Dravida. Secondly the word Arya was used in ancient times to denote a person with noble qualities and was never used in the context of race.Present day historians hold a view that there was no Aryan invasion from Central Asia via Khyber & Bholan passes and they there was no such thing that they fought wars against the so called Dravidian population and drove them south of the Vindhya mountains decimating most of the population. The research of the present day historians indicate that there was an indegenious civilization that flourished in the Indo-Gangetic plain and it was this civilization that spread westwards towards Iran, Central Asia and middle eastern counties.Geneticall speaking it is also an established fact that there is no such race called Dravidian race. Ignorance and sheer self intersts in the minds of certain people of Tamil Nadu are the factors that made them indulge in fallacious theory stating that Brahmins belong to the Aryan race dominating over the rest of the people in Tamil Nadu who belong to the Dravidian race.Besides this, the Britishers during their rule in India had adopted a Divide and rule policy permitting all sort of dissensions among the people over whom they ruled strongly lending support to the Aryanvs Dravidian dichotomy as well as the Brahmin & Non-brahmin classifications. Those who shout from roof tops that Brahmins are Aryans and others are Dravidians spreading hatred and violence are deluding themselves living in fools' paradise.
SKM, USA
Dear Sri. D'Ram,
Swami Vivekananda also says there was no Aryan "invasion". But explains that there was indeed a race called Aryans and another called Dravidians. Please see my excerpt from the Swamiji provided below.
The critical thing for our present discussion is that these two races intermixed several times over for so many thousands of years, that it is ridiculous to speak of a "pure" Aryan race and a "pure" Dravidian race.
So, according to Swami V, it is incorrect to say there was no Aryan/Dravidian race. Instead it is correct to say that the intermixture between the two races and other races has erased any racial differences between them.
More importantly, Swami V, also talks about how fruitless is the generation of political hatred on a "race" basis - again his words on this are reproduced below.
Dear Sri. D'Ram,
Swami Vivekananda also says there was no Aryan "invasion". But explains that there was indeed a race called Aryans and another called Dravidians. Please see my excerpt from the Swamiji provided below.
The critical thing for our present discussion is that these two races intermixed several times over for so many thousands of years, that it is ridiculous to speak of a "pure" Aryan race and a "pure" Dravidian race.
So, according to Swami V, it is incorrect to say there was no Aryan/Dravidian race. Instead it is correct to say that the intermixture between the two races and other races has erased any racial differences between them.
More importantly, Swami V, also talks about how fruitless is the generation of political hatred on a "race" basis - again his words on this are reproduced below.
SKM, USA
Regarding the Yuga explanation.
Swami Sri. Yukteswar Giri, the guru of Paramahansa Yogananda, requested by his Paramguru, Mahavatar Babaji, wrote a book called Holy Science (widely referred to in yogic circles, a DVD has been made out of it and well received (called THE GREAT YEAR, and the book has been accepted in scholarly circles). It is the only book he ever wrote. A 100-page treatise, parts of which I reproduce here. The rest of it is posted in the "Gallery" section.
--
Excerpt from THE HOLY SCIENCE (pages x-xxii)
"The period of Satya Yuga is 4000 years in duration; 400 years before and after Satya Yuga proper are its sandhis or periods of mutation with the preceding and the succeeding Yugas respectively; hence 4800 years in all is the proper age of Satya Yuga. In the calculation of the period other Yugas and Yugasandhis, it is laid down that the numeral one should be deducted from the numbers of both thousands and hundreds which indicate the periods of the previous Yugas and sandhis. From this rule it appears that 3000 years is the length of Treta Yuga, and 300 years before and after are its sandhis, the periods of mutation, which make a total of 3600 years.
So 2000 years is the age of Dwapara Yuga, with 200 years before and after its sandhis; a total of 2400 years. Lastly, 1000 years is the length of Kali Yuga, with 100 years before and after as its sandhis; a total of 1200 years. Thus, 12,000 years, the sum total of all periods of these four Yugas, is the length of one of the Daiva Yugas or Electric Couple, two of which, that is, 24,000 years, make the electric cycle complete."
....end of part 1...
Regarding the Yuga explanation.
Swami Sri. Yukteswar Giri, the guru of Paramahansa Yogananda, requested by his Paramguru, Mahavatar Babaji, wrote a book called Holy Science (widely referred to in yogic circles, a DVD has been made out of it and well received (called THE GREAT YEAR, and the book has been accepted in scholarly circles). It is the only book he ever wrote. A 100-page treatise, parts of which I reproduce here. The rest of it is posted in the "Gallery" section.
--
Excerpt from THE HOLY SCIENCE (pages x-xxii)
"The period of Satya Yuga is 4000 years in duration; 400 years before and after Satya Yuga proper are its sandhis or periods of mutation with the preceding and the succeeding Yugas respectively; hence 4800 years in all is the proper age of Satya Yuga. In the calculation of the period other Yugas and Yugasandhis, it is laid down that the numeral one should be deducted from the numbers of both thousands and hundreds which indicate the periods of the previous Yugas and sandhis. From this rule it appears that 3000 years is the length of Treta Yuga, and 300 years before and after are its sandhis, the periods of mutation, which make a total of 3600 years.
So 2000 years is the age of Dwapara Yuga, with 200 years before and after its sandhis; a total of 2400 years. Lastly, 1000 years is the length of Kali Yuga, with 100 years before and after as its sandhis; a total of 1200 years. Thus, 12,000 years, the sum total of all periods of these four Yugas, is the length of one of the Daiva Yugas or Electric Couple, two of which, that is, 24,000 years, make the electric cycle complete."
....end of part 1...
SKM, USA
...part 2...
"The position of the world in the Dwapara Sandhi era at present (A.D. 1894) is not correctly shown in the Hindu almanacs. The astronomers and astrologers who calculate the almanacs have been guided by wrong annotations of certain Sanskrit scholars (such as Kulluka Bhatta) of the dark age of Kali Yuga, and now maintain that the length of Kali Yuga is 432,000 years, of which 4994 have (in A.D. 1894) passed away, leaving 427,006 years still remaining. A dark prospect! And fortunately one not true.
The mistake crept into almanacs for the first time about 700 B.C. during the reign of Raja Parikshit, just after the completion of the last Descending Dwapara Yuga. At that time Maharaja Yudhisthira, noticing the appearance of the dark Kali Yuga, made over his throne to his grandson, the said Raja Parikshit. Maharaja Yudhisthira, together with all the wise men of his court, retired to the Himalaya Mountains, the paradise of the world. Thus there was none in the court of Raja Parikshit who could understand the principle of correctly calculating the ages of the several Yugas.
Hence, after the completion of the 2400 years of the then current Dwapara Yuga, no one dared to make the introduction of the dark Kali Yuga more manifest by beginning to calculate from its first year and to put an end to the number of Dwapara years.
...end of part 2...
...part 2...
"The position of the world in the Dwapara Sandhi era at present (A.D. 1894) is not correctly shown in the Hindu almanacs. The astronomers and astrologers who calculate the almanacs have been guided by wrong annotations of certain Sanskrit scholars (such as Kulluka Bhatta) of the dark age of Kali Yuga, and now maintain that the length of Kali Yuga is 432,000 years, of which 4994 have (in A.D. 1894) passed away, leaving 427,006 years still remaining. A dark prospect! And fortunately one not true.
The mistake crept into almanacs for the first time about 700 B.C. during the reign of Raja Parikshit, just after the completion of the last Descending Dwapara Yuga. At that time Maharaja Yudhisthira, noticing the appearance of the dark Kali Yuga, made over his throne to his grandson, the said Raja Parikshit. Maharaja Yudhisthira, together with all the wise men of his court, retired to the Himalaya Mountains, the paradise of the world. Thus there was none in the court of Raja Parikshit who could understand the principle of correctly calculating the ages of the several Yugas.
Hence, after the completion of the 2400 years of the then current Dwapara Yuga, no one dared to make the introduction of the dark Kali Yuga more manifest by beginning to calculate from its first year and to put an end to the number of Dwapara years.
...end of part 2...
SKM, USA
...part 3...
Accordign to this wrong method of calculation, therefore, the first year of Kali Yuga was numbered 2401 along with the age of Dwapara Yuga. In A.D. 499, when 1200 years, the length of the true Kali Yuga, was complete, and the sun had reached the point of its orbit farthest from the grand center (when the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Libra in the heavens), the age of Kali in its darkest period was then numbered by 3600 years instead of by 1200.
With the commencement of the Ascending Kali Yuga, after A.D 499, the sun began to advance in its orbit nearer to the grand center, and accordingly the intellectual power of man started to develop. Therefore the mistakes in the almanacs began to be noticed by the wise men of the time, who found that the calculations of the ancient rishis had fixed the period of one Kali Yuga at 1200 years only. But as the intellect of these wise men was not yet suitably developed, they could make out only the mistake itself, and not the reason for it. By way of reconciliation, they fancied that 1200 years, the real age of Kali, were not the ordinary years of our earth, but were so many daiva years (“years of the gods”), consisting of 12 daiva months of 30 daiva days each, with each daiva day being equal to one ordinary solar year of our earth. Hence according to these men 1200 years of Kali Yuga must be equal to 432,000 years of our earth.
In coming to a right conclusion, however, we should take into consideration the position of the Vernal Equinox at spring in the year 1894.
--
In the interest of space I will stop here. I am posting the rest in the "Gallery" section. You may also visit:http://www.scribd.com/doc/35297919/Sri-Yukteswar-The-Holy-Science for the entire book. I do not own the copyrights to this book. The materials presented herein are solely for educational/discussion purposes.
...end of part 3 (concluded)
...part 3...
Accordign to this wrong method of calculation, therefore, the first year of Kali Yuga was numbered 2401 along with the age of Dwapara Yuga. In A.D. 499, when 1200 years, the length of the true Kali Yuga, was complete, and the sun had reached the point of its orbit farthest from the grand center (when the Autumnal Equinox was on the first point of Libra in the heavens), the age of Kali in its darkest period was then numbered by 3600 years instead of by 1200.
With the commencement of the Ascending Kali Yuga, after A.D 499, the sun began to advance in its orbit nearer to the grand center, and accordingly the intellectual power of man started to develop. Therefore the mistakes in the almanacs began to be noticed by the wise men of the time, who found that the calculations of the ancient rishis had fixed the period of one Kali Yuga at 1200 years only. But as the intellect of these wise men was not yet suitably developed, they could make out only the mistake itself, and not the reason for it. By way of reconciliation, they fancied that 1200 years, the real age of Kali, were not the ordinary years of our earth, but were so many daiva years (“years of the gods”), consisting of 12 daiva months of 30 daiva days each, with each daiva day being equal to one ordinary solar year of our earth. Hence according to these men 1200 years of Kali Yuga must be equal to 432,000 years of our earth.
In coming to a right conclusion, however, we should take into consideration the position of the Vernal Equinox at spring in the year 1894.
--
In the interest of space I will stop here. I am posting the rest in the "Gallery" section. You may also visit:http://www.scribd.com/doc/35297919/Sri-Yukteswar-The-Holy-Science for the entire book. I do not own the copyrights to this book. The materials presented herein are solely for educational/discussion purposes.
...end of part 3 (concluded)
SKM, USA
Dear Friends,
A most interesting discussion.
Swami Vivekananda has some interesting things to say about this topic. In the hopes that his words will be welcomed by you all, I am posting that particular part of his speech here.
--
THE COMPLETE WORKS OF SWAMI VIVEKANANDA, VOL.4
From: Writings: Prose
Link: http://www.ramakris
Copyright: Sri. Ramakrishna Mission
Part 1
ARYANS AND TAMILIANS
A veritable ethnological museum! Possibly, the half-ape skeleton of the recently discovered Sumatra link will be found on search here, too. The Dolmens are not wanting. Flint implements can be dug out almost anywhere. The lake-dwellers — at least the river-dwellers — must have been abundant at one time. The cave-men and leaf-wearers still persist. The primitive hunters living in forests are in evidence in various parts of the country. Then there are the more historical varieties — the Negrito-Kolarian, the Dravidian, and the Aryan. To these have been added from time to time dashes of nearly all the known races, and a great many yet unknown — various breeds of Mongoloids, Mongols, Tartars, and the so-called Aryans of the philologists. Well, here are the Persian, the Greek, the Yunchi, the Hun, the Chin, the Scythian, and many more, melted and fused, the Jews, Parsees, Arabs, Mongols, down to the descendants of the Vikings and the lords of the German forests, yet undigested — an ocean of humanity, composed of these race-waves seething, boiling, struggling, constantly changing form, rising to the surface, and spreading, and swallowing little ones, again subsiding — this is the history of India.
In the midst of this madness of nature, one of the contending factions discovered a method and, through the force of its superior culture, succeeded in bringing the largest number of Indian humanity under its sway.
The superior race styled themselves the Âryas or nobles, and their method was the Varnâshramâchâra — the so-called caste.
Of course the men of the Aryan race reserved for themselves, consciously or unconsciously a good many privileges; yet the institution of caste has always been very flexible, sometimes too flexible to ensure a healthy uprise of the races very low in the scale of culture.
It put, theoretically at least, the whole of India under the guidance — not of wealth, nor of the sword — but of intellect — intellect chastened and controlled by spirituality. The leading caste in India is the highest of the Aryans — the Brahmins.
Dear Friends,
A most interesting discussion.
Swami Vivekananda has some interesting things to say about this topic. In the hopes that his words will be welcomed by you all, I am posting that particular part of his speech here.
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THE COMPLETE WORKS OF SWAMI VIVEKANANDA, VOL.4
From: Writings: Prose
Link: http://www.ramakris
Copyright: Sri. Ramakrishna Mission
Part 1
ARYANS AND TAMILIANS
A veritable ethnological museum! Possibly, the half-ape skeleton of the recently discovered Sumatra link will be found on search here, too. The Dolmens are not wanting. Flint implements can be dug out almost anywhere. The lake-dwellers — at least the river-dwellers — must have been abundant at one time. The cave-men and leaf-wearers still persist. The primitive hunters living in forests are in evidence in various parts of the country. Then there are the more historical varieties — the Negrito-Kolarian, the Dravidian, and the Aryan. To these have been added from time to time dashes of nearly all the known races, and a great many yet unknown — various breeds of Mongoloids, Mongols, Tartars, and the so-called Aryans of the philologists. Well, here are the Persian, the Greek, the Yunchi, the Hun, the Chin, the Scythian, and many more, melted and fused, the Jews, Parsees, Arabs, Mongols, down to the descendants of the Vikings and the lords of the German forests, yet undigested — an ocean of humanity, composed of these race-waves seething, boiling, struggling, constantly changing form, rising to the surface, and spreading, and swallowing little ones, again subsiding — this is the history of India.
In the midst of this madness of nature, one of the contending factions discovered a method and, through the force of its superior culture, succeeded in bringing the largest number of Indian humanity under its sway.
The superior race styled themselves the Âryas or nobles, and their method was the Varnâshramâchâra — the so-called caste.
Of course the men of the Aryan race reserved for themselves, consciously or unconsciously a good many privileges; yet the institution of caste has always been very flexible, sometimes too flexible to ensure a healthy uprise of the races very low in the scale of culture.
It put, theoretically at least, the whole of India under the guidance — not of wealth, nor of the sword — but of intellect — intellect chastened and controlled by spirituality. The leading caste in India is the highest of the Aryans — the Brahmins.
(to be continued)
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